Editor’s Note: This article is now complete.
Like we said in our preview article, we’ve got both the Danville School Board (6PM) and the Danville City Council (7PM) meetings tonight. We’re going to try to cover some of the School Board meeting then roll to the City Council meeting, But there’s probably going to more “happenings” at the City Council meeting and that’s why we’re lumping both of these meeting into one article. We may split it up in the editing process. Hey, who knows? No matter what, be sure to refresh this page often for the latest happenings, photos and commentary! It’s only LIVE! here on SouthsideCentral… but you already knew that.
We’re at the school board meeting to start tonight.
Liz Jordan always has everything arranged perfectly.
Superintendent Kathy Osborne & Gold Star award winning teacher Joyce Culley
The audience starts to build.
I really hate to do it, but I’ve got to get to the City Council meeting. I’ve got a feeling that this Confederate flag issue is going to draw a lot of speakers.
Sue Demasi isn’t above pointing fingers, folks.
Committee for Appointments is meeting now. It looks like everybody will be reappointed to the commissions they were discussing.
The gallery starts to fill up. No, Dolores isn’t pestering Harold.
Girl Scout Troop 152, Hello!
We’re about 2 minutes out from the start.
We’re underway.
Big crowd. Mayor Saunders says speakers on the flag issue should limit themselves to 3 minutes.
The Girl Scout troop invites council and the citizens to their Peace Pole dedication ceremony. From Susan Dalton: “My Girl Scout Troop 152 will be there tonight to invite our Councilmen and the citizens of the Southside Region to our Peace Pole Dedication event on Nov. 15th at 1:00 pm at the new YMCA.”
Speaker is talking about historic Jefferson Avenue homes being demolished. I will fund out more about this and add it to the article. Sonja Ingram, can you help me on this?
He’s asking council for a six month moratorium on demolitions. Buddy Rawley asks is there really something that will happen in the next six months that hasn’t happened in years. Good back and forth between Rawley and the speaker. Sherman Saunders moves it along. John Gilstrap questions the moratorium request. Lee Vogler also speaks. Gilstrap asks City Manager Joe King about the policy. King says that the city only demolishes houses beyond repair. The speaker says his experts say the houses can be repaired.
We move to the consent agenda, then to the flag issue.
The motion is made to support the denial of the flag removal request.
Avon Keen speaks first.
Keen repeats his objections to the Confederate flag as a symbol of hate. He says this decision could cost citizens a lot of money. I’m assuming he’s revisiting his arguments from his press conference. He says he doesn’t want to see a monument of a black slave with a rope around his neck, either. There was one slight grumble from the flag supporters, but nothing after that. Saunders asks for supporters to rise.
Lawrence Campbell is next. He tells a story of how he was ejected from this room 50 years ago when it was a courtroom.
He says “this flag is polarizing this community”. He references Danville United (his suggestion) by saying that the flag is not uniting Danville. His last words were “Take the flag down”
Tommy Bennett speaks next.
He speaks about the way he was treated in the 60s.
Some flag supporters raise their flags. Bad form.
Holy crap. Buddy Rawley responds by saying that those events were 50 years ago, and he feels sorry for Bennett “carrying so much hate for so long”. Bennett gets a bit snippy and there goes his good speech down the toilet. Lee Vogler reminds Bennett that the statute has been changed since the Fredericksburg flag removal case that Bennett mentioned. It all goes downhill from there.
Oh my. Next speaker talks to council, then to the audience. Here’s a hint that nobody will take. You’re not trying to impress or change the minds of the people in the audience. You’re trying to influence the city council and the people watching from home. His speech also goes downhill fast when he says “”I have black blood in me.”
Marcus Hughes speaks next, semi-challenging Rawley’s remarks. Buddy Rawley fires back saying “How about 100 years from now?” His voice is breaking that he’s so upset. Hughes responds. Oh my.
Saunders brings this back to order. Hughes finishes by saying removing the flag stops reminding people of the problems of the past.
Katie Whitehead speaks next.
She asks about City Attorney Clarke Whitfield’s opinion Whitfield cites attorney/client privilege in not revealing his legal opinion. Whitehead asks if an opinion from the state attorney general would be helpful.
Larry Campbell seems to be ready to offer an amendment to the motion. Saunders says that’s in order after the public comments.
Willie Wells speaks next.
He brings a flag up as a prop. He says it’s just a flag and doesn’t hurt anyone.
The next speaker comes and goes so fast that I missed him. He was anti-flag. Hey, you people try and type this stuff out and process photos. Heh.
Next speaker talks about there were black Confederate soldiers. He talks to the audience as well. Sigh.
Steve Adkins speaks next.
He speaks calmly and does the best of anyone so far. Note the difference between Adkins and the other pro-flag speakers so far. Steve Adkins Gets It.
Ed Clark speaks next.
He says when you get politics in this, it becomes a mess. Ed does a very good job on his speech.
Petrina Carter is next.
She goes horribly off track reading some letter that says Michael Brown was killed because he was black. She also mentions something about there are no black people in the movie “Frozen”. I’ve now tuned her out. I’m obliged to point out that the big musical number in “Frozen” is “Let It Go”. Heh.
The flag goes higher. Oh my.
Next speaker.
He talks about the monument deal from 20 years ago. Again, good rational calm speech. Also notice his attire. That means a lot, people.
The bad side of the flag support have cancelled out the Steve Adkins type of speakers.
Next speaker talks about the decision made by the Lexington city council removing the flag from public property.
Back to Council debate now. Larry Campbell proposes a substitute motion for an flag up or flag down vote. Fred Shanks challenges the substitute motion. Gilstrap challenges Campbell, asking why his opinion has changed. Campbell says he has talked with legal advisors that says Council does have the authority to pull the flag. Shanks asks if VML’s willingness to pay legal costs if sued. Whitfield says nothing in writing. Alonzo Jones says he is against Campbell because that would go against the city attorney’s opinion. First time I’ve seen this. This is one hell of a plot twist. Gilstrap says this flag won’t solve blight, the economy and other city problems. Bingo. He says he feels bad for those who were hurt by the past saying “We were wrong”. Campbell responds with his interpretation of the statute. Miller chastises both sides for threats that have been made by both sides. He’s right on that.
Campbell’s motion for a take the flag down vote is going to be defeated.
Gary Miller nails it. He says “we’ll be sued and we’ll lose.” Sherman Saunders weighs in with “this is a no-win vote”.
Campbell’s up or down flag vote motion fails 2-7, with Saunders voting in favor. I’m totally lost at Saunders support for the up/down vote on the flag. Both Campbell & Saunders are going against the city attorney’s advice and would be putting the city at serious risk of a lawsuit that they would probably lose. Gary Miller wants the word “memorial” added to the resolution.
We’re now in parliamentary procedure HELL.
The original motion passes 7-2. Campbell and Saunders vote no. That means that Council says they have no legal authority to move the flag.
Speed mode. Everything else is going fast and will be approved.
Angela Fowler from Danville-Pittsylvania Community Services Board speaks.
The flag supporters are loud in the hallway and police move them on. Avon Keen tells me “It’s not over.” (about the flag issue) as he leaves.
Big compliment to the Girl Scout troop for staying for the entire meeting.
Around the horn time.
Chuck Vipperman’s son Charlie is mentioned after his accident and given well wishes. James Buckner mentions the No-Shave November promotion. John Gilstrap explains the flag vote. Alonzo Jones mentions the Girl Scouts dedication lasting through this meeting. Gary Miller mentions a story where a German visitor questioned the drinkability of the water. He also mentions the Lynchburg trip. Fred Shanks mentions “buy local” during the holiday season.
That ends this long Danville City Council meeting. We’ve got a RandomThoughts! article coming up and a Winners/Losers article planned.
Remember folks, nobody else gives you this kind of in-depth coverage like SouthsideCentral does!
Bad form? Wow. Overt racism gets “bad form”. I certainly hope that’s cleaned up in the editing to something much more substantial and was just a note to mark where the outrage should go.
Try and type all this crap up as it’s going on.
Take the flag down, then we will be united? ?? Hahahahahaha
AG would hold differently if asked….a flag is an accessory to a monument, not a monument. Ask any realtor or real estate attorney. A monument or memorial needs to be attached to the ground to be “real property.”
Frozen? What…..um…what? So don’t show Frozen on the flagpole….
I really was hoping for someone to make the “Let it go” reference during the Frozen diatribe.
Mr. Campbell, not content with dividing the citizens of Danville, now wishes to divide City Council. Disgraceful.
When you purchase a house, does the flag go with the flagpole? Ask a realtor…..
It does if State law says that it does.
I don’t think it does. I’m not being disrespectful to you. But the wording of the statute is clear that a memorial or monument can not be disturbed. But a flag is not a memorial or monument. I’d be very interested in Councilman Shank’s thoughts. He works with real estate as a surveyor. Is a flag part of a monument or memorial or not?
I don’t take what you’re saying as disrespectful. I believe and I could be wrong, but I don’t think I am, that the original 1994 compromise agreement was that the “monument would consist of a 7-foot obelisk with a flagpole flying the 3rd National Flag of the Confederacy”/ Thereby making the flag one of the three main components of the monument. The law states that the monument cannot be altered, so that’s why the flag remains, because it is actually a component of the monument. I believe there was also an agreement with one of the Confederate organizations that they would be responsible for the flag and could replace it when it became faded, dirty or torn. This would fall under the heading of maintenance. That’s how I have come to understand it at least. I’m sure Bruce will correct me if I’m wrong about this.
Why all the fuss? Who really cares mwf flag flies tts flag down every other sun it switches lol.this is stupid and a waste of city time and resources. It diverts attention from real issues affecting danville residents daily..smh
Mayor states: This issue is “tearing the community apart.””
There’s probably about 100 or so people in the community who really care.
And what are those issues that we face daily that don’t in some way go back to race and the racism that has infected this country for centuries? The flag represents a time when the prevailing attitude was that one race was superior to the other and that the other inferior race would never be more than second or third class individuals. This sentiment has played out over the years in every aspect of our lives from education to economics to the criminal justice system. The Confederacy and the war that was fought was centered on one issue: Slavery! There’s no denying it and the nostalgic supporters of a Southern Cause wave it in the faces of blacks with every wave of that flag. They can cry states rights, southern heritage, and all the mumbo jumbo they want, the fact remains that the history they purport to uphold so ideally is a stain on the interwoven tapestry of America. Honor the dead and all that fought for a losing cause, but do it in a way that doesn’t continually insult a huge part of our community who have been the recipients of so many years of hatred, intimidation, scorn, fear and death as a result of this Cause.
Real issues we fave daily:
1.increasing energy costs
2.uneducated work force.
3.lack of high paying jobs
4.people choosing between medicine and food
5.going to school at DCC only to graduate and no real employer give a shit that you have a 2yr degree
And a host of more REAL issues i could list. A flag that no one cared about 6 months ago flying is not a real issue,its a platform to cause people to be divided. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see this.
David you are so incredibly wrong its hard to know where to start. If you are insulted it is in your mind not in a flag. You really need a short course in history if you believe the crap you just posted. “All the south ever desired was that the union, as established by our forefathers, be preserved; and that the Government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth.” -Robert E Lee. President Lincoln insisted that the war was not about slavery or black rights; it was a war to preserve the Union. His words were not simply aimed at the loyal southern states, however — most white northerners were not interested in fighting to free slaves or in giving rights to black people.Southerners were generating two-thirds of U. S. exports, and also bearing two-thirds of the retaliatory tariffs abroad.The result was that that the 18.5 percent of America’s citizens who lived in the South were saddled with three times their proportionate share of the federal government’s costs. THAT is what the civil war was about
I respectfully disagree Mr. Centurion, as much as you cite those other things as reason, most of the states seceded from the union because of their desire to expand slavery south and west as stated in their secession documents and causes for it. Some even stated their God-given rights at superiority over the inferior African race as their southern cause and for their willingness to keep it that way. Sure some of the other stuff you stated was going on, but the states right that was at the core of the struggle was the preservation and expansion if slavery! Lincoln ran on an anti-expansion platform and won, why do you thing the Confederacy rushed to get set up after he was elected and before he could take office? Answer: their most valuable economic commodity was in jeopardy, free labor to man their southern agrarian economy. Denial is the terrible thing that has caused this argument to fester for so long, and gets us nowhere!
Mr Keen would do well to use his position and influence among his peers to be a proponent of positive change; and stop using a flag as an excuse to keep stirring up racial unrest and tension. The flag is not the problem but his attitude towards the flag that is the problem. Stop focusing on the past and look to the future. Those who live in the past are doomed to repeat it.
These “supporters” do way more harm than good for their cause. I want the flag to stay up, but these beardos make supporters look bad.
They look like nuts. All the blacks were respectfully attired. I also want the flag to fly, but don’t care to be linked to the beardos, as you call them.
As you are offended that the flag flies, I am offended that the flag does not fly. There are many things that offend me. In our politically correct society I have to sick it up. You don’t care about me and my feelings .
What we have is a stalemate, with no winner.
In the end you will win, and the flag will go.
We will still be divided but you won’t be offended by the flag. You will find another cause that offends you and so it goes. You will never be satisfied. You and your race have never had it so good. Just think how your life would be in Africa today.
You should be thankful for what you have!
Wow. Just wow.
Wow spelled backward is still woW.